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>>Could it be related to Euclid book IV, which culminates working out the >>15-sided polygon? (and thus the 30-spoke wheel, by prolongation)
>eye has no idea
>Interesting point, thanks!
>-passing bottomless jug >in a bamboo grove
It could be a metaphor or a translation thingie like 10k for "many".
If I was going to make a wooden wheel with a wooden rim and wooden spokes, I'd look at maybe 8 or 16 spokes (some power of 2 so I could easily figure out where on the rim the holes go), 30 would take forever and tend to weaken the rim not to mention the hub. But I'm no wheelright, just a round-eye who buys his wheels factory-made and thinks the shiny magnesium alloy ones are nice.
I think the "many" thing works, maybe there's a translator type around who could peek at the pictogram and give us a read?
> >Could it be related to Euclid book IV, which culminates working out the > >15-sided polygon? (and thus the 30-spoke wheel, by prolongation)
wheels invented across a land; same time; imagining thoughts flowing like rivers in waves...bouncing along from mine to mine to mind...only particles inking to a page.
'Ho-shang Kung says, "Ancient carts had thirty spokes in imitation of the lunar number."' [Ho-shang lived thousands of years ago.]
>It could be a metaphor ...
Well, now that you mention it. 'According to Tu Er-wei, the "head" in the character tao is the face of the moon. And the meaning of "road" comes from watching this disembodied face as it moves across the sky. ... However, the heart of Tu's thesis is not linguistic, but textual and based on references within the Taoteching. Lao-tzu says the Tao is between Heaven and Earth, it's Heaven's Gate, it's empty but inexhaustible, it doesn't die, it waxes and wanes, it's distant and dark, it doesn't try to be full, it's the light that doesn't blind,
it has thirty spokes
and two thirteen-day (visible) phases, it can be strung like a bow or expand and contract like a bellows, it moves the other way (in relation to the sun), it's the great image, the hidden immortal, the crescent soul, the dark union, the dark womb, the dark beyond dark. If this isn't the moon, what is it? ... In associating the Tao with the moon, Lao-tzu was not alone. The symbol the Taoists have used since ancient times to represent the Tao shows the two conjoined phases of the moon.'
> 'Ho-shang Kung says, "Ancient carts had > thirty spokes in imitation of the lunar number."' > [Ho-shang lived thousands of years ago.]
Indeed I am not the first! It is interesting to note that 'Ho-shang Kung, who no doubt was mas able to understand the semantics of TTC words better that we modern readers, does not invoke a metaphor for "infinite" or "any number".
Also, he refers to "ancient carts", ie, not to the carts existing at his age, but carts he suppossed from time ago.
Funny also that the lunar number is 30, not 29. Calendars going on there.
Yes, it is also a related, intriguing paradox: 14 is unsolvable with compass and line. The article seems to insinuate that it is a modern development, following the iron axle.
Note that modern bikes use 36 spokes, again a non solvable division of the circle. It had been even more amazing if TTC had used 36. And in an inverse way, it had been a completely different course of thought if the master had used 32 (thus a iterative bipartition 2->4->8->16->32>...)
> 'Ho-shang Kung says, "Ancient carts had > thirty spokes in imitation of the lunar number."' > [Ho-shang lived thousands of years ago.]
> >It could be a metaphor ...
> Well, now that you mention it. > 'According to Tu Er-wei, the "head" > in the character tao is the face of the moon. > And the meaning of "road" comes from > watching this disembodied face as it > moves across the sky. > ... > However, the heart of Tu's thesis is > not linguistic, but textual and based on > references within the Taoteching. Lao-tzu > says the Tao is between Heaven and Earth, > it's Heaven's Gate, it's empty but inexhaustible, > it doesn't die, it waxes and wanes, it's distant > and dark, it doesn't try to be full, it's the > light that doesn't blind,
> it has thirty spokes
> and two thirteen-day (visible) phases, > it can be strung like a bow or expand and > contract like a bellows, it moves the other way > (in relation to the sun), it's the great image, > the hidden immortal, the crescent soul, > the dark union, the dark womb, the dark > beyond dark. If this isn't the moon, > what is it? > ... > In associating the Tao with the moon, > Lao-tzu was not alone. The symbol the Taoists > have used since ancient times to represent > the Tao shows the two conjoined phases > of the moon.'
Red Pine and others talk of the moon: the light that doesn't blind. Chinese astrology is based on the moon, unlike the west, so this makes scents. Great cosmology--the west and east!! :))
Puew! Maybe all teh intellectuals aren't gone after all!!
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