Gmail Calendar Docs Reader La Web Más »
Grupos visitados recientemente | Ayuda | Acceder
Página principal de Grupos de Google
Herman Miller Mirra chair
En este grupo hay demasiados temas que deben mostrarse primero. Para que este aparezca al principio de la lista, debes descartar esta opción para alguno de los anteriores.
Error al procesar tu solicitud. Por favor, inténtalo de nuevo.
marcar
  18 mensajes - Ampliar todos  -  Traducir todo al Traducido (ver todos los originales)
El grupo al cual envías entradas es un grupo Usenet. Si envías mensajes a este grupo, cualquier usuario de Internet podrá ver tu dirección de correo electrónico
Tu respuesta no se ha enviado.
Tu entrada se ha publicado correctamente.
 
De:
Para:
Cc:
Seguimiento:
Añadir Cc | Añadir seguimiento | Editar asunto
Asunto:
Validación:
Con fines de verificación, escribe los caracteres que veas en la imagen siguiente o los números que escuches haciendo clic en el icono de accesibilidad. Escucha y escribe los números que oyes.
 
Ian Robinson  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 6 mayo 2006, 18:24
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: Ian Robinson <j...@canicula.invalid>
Fecha: Sat, 6 May 2006 17:24:30 +0100
Local: Sáb 6 mayo 2006 18:24
Asunto: Herman Miller Mirra chair
I know I've brought this up before. Last time was asking about Herman
Miller Aeron chairs. I still haven't got a new chair yet but need to.
The Mirra from Herman Miller gets good reviews [1][2]. Anyone here use
one at their computer/work/study desk?

Ian
[1]<http://www.pixelsurgeon.com/reviews/review.php?id=439>
[2]<http://www.slate.com/id/2085064/>

--
Ian Robinson, Belfast, UK
<http://www.canicula.com/wp/>


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Bonge Boo!  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 7 mayo 2006, 12:52
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: Bonge Boo! <bingb...@spamcop.net>
Fecha: Sun, 07 May 2006 11:52:00 +0100
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair
On 6/5/06 17:24, in article
0001HW.C0828C4E00132EC2F0284...@news.gradwell.net, "Ian Robinson"

<j...@canicula.invalid> wrote:
> I know I've brought this up before. Last time was asking about Herman
> Miller Aeron chairs. I still haven't got a new chair yet but need to.
> The Mirra from Herman Miller gets good reviews [1][2]. Anyone here use
> one at their computer/work/study desk?

No, but if you want to pay me, I'll go to the factory (8 miles away) and do
a bum test on it for you and report back.

On a serious note, people who have them have always raved to me about them,
specially if you have postural problems.


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Ian Robinson  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 7 mayo 2006, 13:05
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: Ian Robinson <j...@canicula.invalid>
Fecha: Sun, 7 May 2006 12:05:22 +0100
Local: Dom 7 mayo 2006 13:05
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair
On Sun, 7 May 2006 11:52:00 +0100, Bonge Boo! wrote
(in article <C0838FE0.1F4F3%bingb...@spamcop.net>):

> No, but if you want to pay me, I'll go to the factory (8 miles away) and do
> a bum test on it for you and report back.

Heh.

> On a serious note, people who have them have always raved to me about them,
> specially if you have postural problems.

Is that the Mirra or Herman Miller chairs (read Aeron) in general?
There's at least 1, possibly 2, showrooms in Belfast where you can go
and see them. Have to try and go this week.

Ian

--
Ian Robinson, Belfast, UK
<http://www.canicula.com/wp/>


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Peter Lee  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 7 mayo 2006, 13:14
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: peter...@softhome.net (Peter Lee)
Fecha: Sun, 7 May 2006 12:14:10 +0100
Local: Dom 7 mayo 2006 13:14
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair

Bonge Boo! <bingb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> On 6/5/06 17:24, in article
> 0001HW.C0828C4E00132EC2F0284...@news.gradwell.net, "Ian Robinson"
> <j...@canicula.invalid> wrote:

> > I know I've brought this up before. Last time was asking about Herman
> > Miller Aeron chairs. I still haven't got a new chair yet but need to.
> > The Mirra from Herman Miller gets good reviews [1][2]. Anyone here use
> > one at their computer/work/study desk?

> No, but if you want to pay me, I'll go to the factory (8 miles away) and do
> a bum test on it for you and report back.

> On a serious note, people who have them have always raved to me about them,
> specially if you have postural problems.

Interesting- Ian, if you get one, I'd be interested to hear your
thoughts.

£500 seems like an awful lot to spend, but then again, if it cures
back/postural problems, it may be worth it. My wife spent nearly £100
last month at the chiropracter, probably because of off posture at the
computer for hours at a time.

Peter

--
This address is never read; use
peterattheleesdotukdotnet


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Ian Robinson  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 7 mayo 2006, 13:18
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: Ian Robinson <j...@canicula.invalid>
Fecha: Sun, 7 May 2006 12:18:02 +0100
Local: Dom 7 mayo 2006 13:18
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair
On Sun, 7 May 2006 12:14:10 +0100, Peter Lee wrote
(in article <1heyv6g.k8ilv5ptkzafN%peter...@softhome.net>):

> Interesting- Ian, if you get one, I'd be interested to hear your
> thoughts.

I will be getting a new chair of some description.

> £500 seems like an awful lot to spend, but then again, if it cures
> back/postural problems,

I don't have back problems but I do spend a lot of time at this desk
either using the Macintosh or reading and writing. Lots of others have
said it before but we spend thousands on the computers we buy and then
spend hours using them sitting in cheap unsuitable chairs.

Ian

--
Ian Robinson, Belfast, UK
<http://www.canicula.com/wp/>


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Tom Warner  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 7 mayo 2006, 16:30
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: t...@dfind.com (Tom Warner)
Fecha: Sun, 7 May 2006 15:30:31 +0100
Local: Dom 7 mayo 2006 16:30
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair

Ian Robinson <j...@canicula.invalid> wrote:
> I know I've brought this up before. Last time was asking about Herman
> Miller Aeron chairs. I still haven't got a new chair yet but need to.
> The Mirra from Herman Miller gets good reviews [1][2]. Anyone here use
> one at their computer/work/study desk?

If you're going to spend a substantial amount of money on a chair, you
really should test drive a Freedom Chair, especially if you want to be
able to recline.

<http://www.humanscale.com/products/freedom_index.cfm?detail=features>

HTH
Tom
--
With or without religion,
you would have good people doing good things
and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Ian Robinson  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 7 mayo 2006, 17:09
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: Ian Robinson <j...@canicula.invalid>
Fecha: Sun, 7 May 2006 16:09:29 +0100
Local: Dom 7 mayo 2006 17:09
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair
On Sun, 7 May 2006 15:30:31 +0100, Tom Warner wrote
(in article <1hez3z9.ym9lrfg25o6eN%...@dfind.com>):

> If you're going to spend a substantial amount of money on a chair, you
> really should test drive a Freedom Chair, especially if you want to be
> able to recline.

Ta. First impressions are that I don't like the look of the chairs. But
I will delve deeper.

Thanks again.

Ian

--
Ian Robinson, Belfast, UK
<http://www.canicula.com/wp/>


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Twangin'  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 7 mayo 2006, 20:14
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: Twangin' <twangin...@yahoo-nospam.co.uk>
Fecha: Sun, 07 May 2006 19:14:15 +0100
Local: Dom 7 mayo 2006 20:14
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair
In article <0001HW.C0828C4E00132EC2F0284...@news.gradwell.net>,
 Ian Robinson <j...@canicula.invalid> wrote:

> I know I've brought this up before. Last time was asking about Herman
> Miller Aeron chairs. I still haven't got a new chair yet but need to.
> The Mirra from Herman Miller gets good reviews [1][2]. Anyone here use
> one at their computer/work/study desk?

> Ian
> [1]<http://www.pixelsurgeon.com/reviews/review.php?id=439>
> [2]<http://www.slate.com/id/2085064/>

I think I responded to this before but to recap, I'm pleased with my
Herman Miller Mirra which I bought from from
http://www.homeworkingsolutions.co.uk. Pleased with their service. HM
have recently launched a slightly cheaper version at ?435 called the
Celle, not sure what they've cut the spec on.

    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Ian Robinson  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 7 mayo 2006, 20:20
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: Ian Robinson <j...@canicula.invalid>
Fecha: Sun, 7 May 2006 19:20:15 +0100
Local: Dom 7 mayo 2006 20:20
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair
On Sun, 7 May 2006 19:14:15 +0100, Twangin' wrote
(in article
<twanginman-6DC85C.19141507052...@i-194-106-32-13.freedom2surf.net>):

> I think I responded to this before but to recap, I'm pleased with my
> Herman Miller Mirra which I bought from from
> http://www.homeworkingsolutions.co.uk. Pleased with their service. HM
> have recently launched a slightly cheaper version at ?435 called the
> Celle, not sure what they've cut the spec on.

Good stuff. Thanks. The Mirra is definitely in the frame at present.

Ian

--
Ian Robinson, Belfast, UK
<http://www.canicula.com/wp/>


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Sak Wathanasin  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 7 mayo 2006, 23:10
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: Sak Wathanasin <s...@network-analysis.ltd.uk>
Fecha: Sun, 07 May 2006 22:10:45 +0100
Local: Dom 7 mayo 2006 23:10
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair
In article <1heyv6g.k8ilv5ptkzafN%peter...@softhome.net>,
 peter...@softhome.net (Peter Lee) wrote:

> £500 seems like an awful lot to spend, but then again, if it cures

They last for years. I've had my Aeron since about 2000 and it looks pretty
new. Unlike your run-of-the-mill office chair, it has no fabric that fades
or upholstery that gets worn down.

--

Sak Wathanasin
Network Analysis Limited
http://www.network-analysis.ltd.uk


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Tom Warner  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 8 mayo 2006, 01:46
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: t...@dfind.com (Tom Warner)
Fecha: Mon, 8 May 2006 00:46:55 +0100
Local: Lun 8 mayo 2006 01:46
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair

Ian Robinson <j...@canicula.invalid> wrote:
> Ta. First impressions are that I don't like the look of the chairs.

I understand. When spending this sort of money you have to get the one
that makes you happy.

I fell in love with the way the Freedom Chair (hate the name) follows my
moves when I lean back to stretch or forward again, and the way the
headrest moves up to my head if I recline and the way the
backrest/lumbar support pivots to stay in constant contact with my
back... all automagically. No buttons or levers to mess with. I don't
even have to take my hands off the keyboard... lovely.

Also, my study tends to be cold and the mesh of the Aeron did not appeal
to my arthritic joints. I prefer a warmer chair.

All the best,
Tom
--
With or without religion,
you would have good people doing good things
and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Rexx Magnus  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 8 mayo 2006, 10:32
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: Rexx Magnus <trash...@uk2.net>
Fecha: 8 May 2006 08:32:53 GMT
Local: Lun 8 mayo 2006 10:32
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair
On Sat, 06 May 2006 16:24:30 GMT, Ian Robinson scrawled:

> I know I've brought this up before. Last time was asking about Herman
> Miller Aeron chairs. I still haven't got a new chair yet but need to.
> The Mirra from Herman Miller gets good reviews [1][2]. Anyone here use
> one at their computer/work/study desk?

> Ian
> [1]<http://www.pixelsurgeon.com/reviews/review.php?id=439>
> [2]<http://www.slate.com/id/2085064/>

I'll never understand why they insist on calling poking a big hole in your
back 'back support'. That's not a good curvature for your spine, if you
intend on never having back pain from merely standing up.

The number of people I've managed to stop from having back pain, just by
showing them how to sit and stand properly (thanks to teaching tai chi)
never ceases to amaze me.

--
http://www.rexx.co.uk
To email me, visit the site.

http://www.rexx.co.uk/runes/ - personal online rune readings


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Bella Jones  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 8 mayo 2006, 21:53
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: m...@privacy.net (Bella Jones)
Fecha: Mon, 8 May 2006 20:53:35 +0100
Local: Lun 8 mayo 2006 21:53
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair

This looks slightly more my kind of comfy chair.  May I ask how much
they cost?  The site didn't immediately enlighten me.

--
bellajonez at yahoo dot co dot uk


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Tom Warner  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 9 mayo 2006, 10:27
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: t...@dfind.com (Tom Warner)
Fecha: Tue, 9 May 2006 09:27:06 +0100
Local: Mart 9 mayo 2006 10:27
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair

Bella Jones <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > Also, my study tends to be cold and the mesh of the Aeron did not appeal
> > to my arthritic joints. I prefer a warmer chair.

> This looks slightly more my kind of comfy chair.  May I ask how much
> they cost?  The site didn't immediately enlighten me.

As you've probably found, a quick sniff around the interweb isn't very
helpful...

Mine was a gift some years ago. I'm trying to locate the paperwork from
the purchase to see where it came from and how much it cost but, the
task is becoming archeological. When/if I find a source, I'll post it.

It hadn't occurred to me that they may not be readily available here at
the moment.

Until someone finds a source, I guess I'll have to keep quiet about
them.

Too bad- great chair.

All the best,
Tom
--
With or without religion,
you would have good people doing good things
and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Ian Robinson  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 9 mayo 2006, 20:52
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: Ian Robinson <j...@canicula.invalid>
Fecha: Tue, 9 May 2006 19:52:24 +0100
Local: Mart 9 mayo 2006 20:52
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair
On Sun, 7 May 2006 15:30:31 +0100, Tom Warner wrote
(in article <1hez3z9.ym9lrfg25o6eN%...@dfind.com>):

> If you're going to spend a substantial amount of money on a chair, you
> really should test drive a Freedom Chair, especially if you want to be
> able to recline.

I called in to a showroom in Belfast this afternoon [1] to have a look
at and a sit on some chairs. They had the Aeron, Mirra and some Human
Scale chairs (but not the Freedom Chair).

I tried the Aeron first. It just didn't feel right for me. Probably due
to the fact that it was a Size A and I'd need a Size C as I'm over 6'2"
tall. The Size C has a seat that is deeper (front to back).

From what I've been reading it was the Mirra I was really interested in
so I tried it next. Wow. It was very comfortable. The back moulds
itself and supports your whole back including the shoulders. It feels
like it's purposely changing shape to provide full continuous support.
The Mirra also reclines and has tensions adjusters and tilt limiters.
It doesn't have a headrest but the back is tall so that's not a problem
for me. The armrests are adjustable and very comfortable. To be honest
I was sold on the Mirra very quickly.

I also tried a Humanscale chair that was a similar shape and size to
the Mirra. It didn't support my back as well as the Mirra and didn't
look as good either (which is a consideration).

So I've provisionally ordered a Mirra. I've to email them later tonight
to tell them what colour I want. Will get it in about 4 weeks.

Thanks to everyone for the input, both this time and the last time I
raised this topic. I'll post a real review and pics when I get it.
Details on the web (including Flash infomercials etc.) at:

<http://www.hermanmiller.com/mirra/>

Ian

[1] Workshop NI - excellent place for office furniture.
--
Ian Robinson, Belfast, UK
<http://www.canicula.com/wp/>


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Jon B  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 9 mayo 2006, 21:31
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: black.h...@jonbradbury.com (Jon B)
Fecha: Tue, 9 May 2006 20:31:26 +0100
Local: Mart 9 mayo 2006 21:31
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair

Yes I'd be interested too, I keep suffering back issues at the offce so
one day I'll probably have to invest in something much better...
--
Jon B
Above email address IS valid.
<http://www.bramley-computers.co.uk/> Apple Laptop Repairs.

    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Ian Robinson  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 24 jun 2006, 01:09
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: Ian Robinson <j...@canicula.invalid>
Fecha: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:09:19 +0100
Local: Sáb 24 jun 2006 01:09
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair
On Tue, 9 May 2006 19:52:24 +0100, Ian Robinson wrote
(in article <0001HW.C086A378000BE52DF0407...@news.gradwell.net>):

> So I've provisionally ordered a Mirra. I've to email them later tonight
> to tell them what colour I want. Will get it in about 4 weeks.

Picked it up today. Sitting it as I type this. Still have to tweak the
settings (arm rest height, lumbar support etc.) but it's very
comfortable.

Ian

--
Ian Robinson, Belfast, UK
<http://www.canicula.com/wp/>


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Hugh Browton  
Ver perfil   Traducir al Traducido (ver original)
 Más opciones 27 jun 2006, 20:30
Grupos de noticias: uk.comp.sys.mac
De: Hugh Browton <useneth@**.not.uk>
Fecha: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 19:30:40 +0100
Local: Mart 27 jun 2006 20:30
Asunto: Re: Herman Miller Mirra chair
On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:09:19 +0100, Ian Robinson wrote
(in article <0001HW.C0C2332F000B0708F0407...@news.gradwell.net>):

> On Tue, 9 May 2006 19:52:24 +0100, Ian Robinson wrote
> (in article <0001HW.C086A378000BE52DF0407...@news.gradwell.net>):

>> So I've provisionally ordered a Mirra. I've to email them later tonight
>> to tell them what colour I want. Will get it in about 4 weeks.

> Picked it up today. Sitting it as I type this. Still have to tweak the
> settings (arm rest height, lumbar support etc.) but it's very
> comfortable.

Is there a Helen Mirren chair? Sigh.

--
regards
hugh
hugh at clarity point uk point co
(by the sea) (using Hogwasher)

You never can truly tell when you have run out of invisible ink.


    Reenviar  
Debes registrarte antes de enviar mensajes.
Para enviar una entrada, antes deberás formar parte del grupo.
Antes de enviar entradas, actualiza tu alias en la configuración de la suscripción.
No dispones del permiso necesario para enviar entradas.
Fin de los mensajes
« Volver a “Debates” « Tema más reciente     Tema anterior »

Crear un grupo - Grupos de Google - Página principal de Google - Condiciones del servicio - Política de privacidad
©2010 Google